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Author Topic: Denali 2003 Guided Trip  (Read 6041 times)

David Box

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Denali 2003 Guided Trip
« on: Feb 7 2003, 21:15 »

 :(

Well Mister Harry Kikstra, I would like to point at the fact, that it is strictly ILLEGAL to guide a tour on Denali, or pretend to be a guide. You can bring you and your team in trouble if you do this. Do not underestimate this. You are asking money for your services (a profit of at least $2000), but you do not accept the responsibilities of the official guiding companies. You are not a qualified guide and you can potentially endanger your "clients". Therefore I would like to warn potential climbers: do not make use of 7summits "services" They provide virtually nothing. Everyone can arrange a hotel in Anchorage and a trip to Talkeetna. But the official guided companies provide you with their experience on Denali.
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7summits

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Re:Denali 2003 Guided Trip
« Reply #1 on: Feb 8 2003, 00:41 »

Well Mister David Box, thank you for thinking that my site visitors cannot think for themselves.


I have never said I am a guide, nor that the trip is guided. There happen to be many people out there who simply do not have the time to arrange everything themselves: food, buy/rent gear, arrange transport, lodging and much, much more.

This is a total separate matter from the Monopoly of the guide companies.
I have contacted all of them to see if I could organize a guided trip to Denali, but they either did not do this or asked up to $20,000 for 1 guide for a 3 week trip.
That is absolutely ridiculous, no matter what experience they have. I have been on Denali and can tell you that at least 20% of the people who are 'not guided' are in fact accompanied by people who are not guides but who are nevertheless paid to help people climb this beautiful mountain.

Yes, they are David against Goliath maybe, but what is wrong with that.
Please also read the disclaimer: everybody can make up their own mind about how much money they want to spend on what, whom (not) to trust. Anyone going to Denali without proper knowledge does not belong there, independent of hiring an expensive guide service.

If you do not want to use our services & maybe like to strenghten the monopoly, that's your choice and I respect that. But who are you to determine what 'profit' I make and what choice anybody else should make. Please try to show a little respect to others, thank you.

Regards,
Harry
« Last Edit: Feb 8 2003, 00:53 by 7summits »
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"He who climbs upon the highest mountains laughs at all tragedies, real or imaginary." -- Friedrich Nietzsche

Ron

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Re:Denali 2003 Guided Trip
« Reply #2 on: Feb 10 2003, 15:07 »

Who is David Box?

Harry is right. There are lots off people who don't bother with organizing hotels /gear/food and other things that needs to be taken care off when you wanna climb a mountian like Denali. They simply do not have the time, or wanna make the time for it.
Organisatitions like 7summits come in very handy in that case I think AND are not that expensive (and probably not that profitable, but whats it to you? competition?).

There is nothing about being guided on the mountian,on the conterary. The fact that Harry climbed 5 of the 7 summits and has climbed Denali already is like going on a trip with an experianced friend who done it allready and thus enhancing your chances of summiting.
This is how we all start in the mountians as a climber, at least most people I know.You hook on to an experianced guy/friend willing to show you the beauty off climbing and the mountains and were to pay attention to. You can benefit greatly in that and in this case its a cheap way to climb without the hassle off organisation and ridicules guiding costs.

::) So I dont know what your problem is David , but dont making it someone else his.

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David Box

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Re:Denali 2003 Guided Trip
« Reply #3 on: Feb 10 2003, 21:01 »

>Who is David Box?

I am David Box, who is Ron?

>Harry is right. There are lots off people who don't >bother with organizing hotels /gear/food and other >things that needs to be taken care off when you >wanna climb a mountian like Denali. They simply >do not have the time, or wanna make the time for >it.

Let me put it simple people who cannot arrange their own hotel or food (there is virtually no gear provided, the radio, bamboo stakes and sledges are provided by the flight company) DO NOT belong on Denali.

>Organisatitions like 7summits come in very handy >in that case I think AND are not that expensive      >(and probably not that profitable, but whats it to >you? competition?).

I think they are quite expensive for the services they tend (but do not) provide.

>There is nothing about being guided on the >mountian,on the conterary. The fact that Harry >climbed 5 of the 7 summits and has climbed >Denali already is like going on a trip with an >experianced friend who done it allready and thus >enhancing your chances of summiting.
>This is how we all start in the mountians as a >climber, at least most people I know.You hook on >to an experianced guy/friend willing to show you >the beauty off climbing and the mountains and >were to pay attention to.

You don't start on a mountain like Denali.

You can benefit greatly in that and in this case its a cheap way to climb without the hassle off organisation and ridicules guiding costs.

::) So I dont know what your problem is David , but dont making it someone else his.

My problem is stated above and in my previous posting, read it again if you feel like it.
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7summits

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Re:Denali 2003 Guided Trip
« Reply #4 on: Feb 10 2003, 21:12 »

Hello David,

it's ok if you want to start an argument, but please start by telling the truth else it is no use:

Let me put it simple people who cannot arrange their own hotel or food (there is virtually no gear provided, the radio, bamboo stakes and sledges are provided by the flight company) DO NOT belong on Denali.

I think they are quite expensive for the services they tend (but do not) provide.

Not True.
Flight company supplies sledge only, Bamboo stakes you pay for. Radio you pay for. 7summits supplies expedition tents as well stoves/kitchen gear, ropes, snow stakes, radios, all food etc.. Only thing needed is personal climbing gear.

You don't start on a mountain like Denali.

True. That's why starters are not invited for this climb.

Please read the offer carefully before you make any more false accusations. I am open for discussions, but anymore of these lies will be removed.
If you don't want an arranged trip, ok, but stop telling lies.

By the way, there is another big mistake in your original post: the fact that someone has the authority to guide on Denali does NOT mean he has ever been there before!!! Too many of the monopolized guiding companies send people along who are climbing Denali for the first time, while guiding.
Now would you feel safer with someone who is allowed but has never climbed that mountain before, just because the park service has thought of some nationalistic rules to let US companies run by old friends make more money?

Harry
« Last Edit: Feb 26 2004, 14:55 by 7summits »
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Ron

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Re:Denali 2003 Guided Trip
« Reply #5 on: Feb 10 2003, 21:33 »

Im a storemanager in outdoor equipment and a friend off Harry's. I've been climbing for 12 years now in the French,Austrian,Italien and Swiss Alps and in The Andes (Peru)
Thats who I am....now I ask again who is David Box. And whats his interesed in this. Maybe he organizes trips too?

Because sounds to me that all this is flaming...
no more


----------------------------------------
Addition by Harry:
David Box replied with more of the same, sating that you could negotiate free wands and radios. I wonder If he can negotiate free tents, food etc as well.
Anyway as this was more of the same it was deleted.

Anybody with new insights is welcome to react.
« Last Edit: Feb 12 2003, 21:06 by 7summits »
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trunl

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Re:Denali 2003 Guided Trip
« Reply #6 on: Oct 9 2003, 03:34 »

if 'david' is in fact another tour guide operator then wouldnt it be illegal to attack you on your own forum (it was last time i checked).
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