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Author Topic: What is the hardest summit to climb?  (Read 65815 times)

7summits

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What is the hardest summit to climb?
« on: Apr 23 2003, 13:46 »

This is a poll about the hardest climbs:
Possible answers:
- Everest
- Vinson
- Carstensz Pyramid
- Denali
- Aconcagua
 
More peopl die on Aconcagua than on Denali; but Everest is the highest, Carstensz the steepest and Vinson the coldest?
What s the definition of a hard climb? Raising $$$ to climb is also verry hard...

Looking forward to seeing your votes and comments here!
« Last Edit: Oct 21 2004, 15:49 by 7summits »
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trunl

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Re:What is the hardest summit to climb?
« Reply #1 on: Oct 8 2003, 20:17 »

most talk about how the mental challenges are the hardest, yet most people cant handle them. the other day, when i went to the dentist, and found i had a cavity, i told him no gas or antiseptic just to see if i could handle the pain. it was unbelievable, and i will probably never do it again, but anyway like i was saying the mental is the hardest, so i say vinson is the most challenging
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Ron

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Re:What is the hardest summit to climb?
« Reply #2 on: Oct 12 2003, 19:14 »

wow a real dentist  :o

done deal...everest
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trunl

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Re:What is the hardest summit to climb?
« Reply #3 on: Oct 15 2003, 05:51 »

yep
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babe

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Re:What is the hardest summit to climb?
« Reply #4 on: Jan 26 2004, 23:00 »

most talk about how the mental challenges are the hardest, yet most people cant handle them. the other day, when i went to the dentist, and found i had a cavity, i told him no gas or antiseptic just to see if i could handle the pain. it was unbelievable, and i will probably never do it again, but anyway like i was saying the mental is the hardest, so i say vinson is the most challenging

Using your definition of mental being the hardest part, CLEARLY Everest is the toughest climb.
« Last Edit: Jan 26 2004, 23:11 by 7summits »
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trunl

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Re:What is the hardest summit to climb?
« Reply #5 on: Jan 28 2004, 09:42 »

uh, no. i said vinson.
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smrtnupp

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Re: What is the hardest summit to climb?
« Reply #6 on: Oct 21 2004, 10:30 »

Very very interesting!!!!

Question: Have more people died climbing Everest than any other summit? (I really do not know this answer). If Everest is, then would the mental anguish of making it be overwelming in itself?

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Ron

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Re: What is the hardest summit to climb?
« Reply #7 on: Oct 21 2004, 13:37 »

Depnd how you look at it. In absilute numbers probebly yaey, But in % then no.
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7summits

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Re: What is the hardest summit to climb?
« Reply #8 on: Oct 21 2004, 15:52 »

Both absolutely as relatively (%) Everest has seen the most deaths (of the 7summits) and therefore is the most dangerous of them.

So this will make it harder mentally...
 O0
« Last Edit: Oct 22 2004, 16:05 by 7summits »
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trunl

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Re: What is the hardest summit to climb?
« Reply #9 on: Oct 22 2004, 05:02 »

that goes to annapurna with an unprecedented 41% fatality rate. VERY DANGEROUS partly because it is underestimated and climbed by amateurs.


trunl
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Buddha

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Re: What is the hardest summit to climb?
« Reply #10 on: Oct 22 2004, 10:51 »

What constitues an amateur? A guy that only read about climbing in mountains and gained knowledge about it, is he still an amateur? In that case stay away trunl...

I would like to say that all mountains are dangerous. Some of course more dangerous then others... Heck, even the highest mountain in Sweden has casualties every year, average 2-3 people a year. I say it's because they try to summit the peak with wheelchair or inexperienced people going glacierwalking and falls into a crevase.. Take your pick.

I read a statement on Pilgrim Tours website that 46 people had died the previous season on Elbrus, but now I can't find it. The only death I heard about and experienced firsthanded this season was a guy at work who tripped when going down towrds the saddle and slided about 300 meters, dumping his head into a big piece of rock which unfourtanely killed him.
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Ron

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Re: What is the hardest summit to climb?
« Reply #11 on: Oct 22 2004, 12:49 »

Sliding head 1st against a rock from 300m tends to do that buddha.

I also had some near misses. After 14 years of climbing you just cant avoid it and something will happen (unless you dont challange yourself and do only easy stuff, but then still) And last month a friend of mine with a guy i know took a long fall. My friend survived but was hospitalized and the guy i knew died. They were very experianced and my friend almost a UIAA guide. And i wasnt the 1st i knew. If you climb on a high level and have friends who do then be prepared to these things occuring. :?)
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Buddha

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Re: What is the hardest summit to climb?
« Reply #12 on: Oct 22 2004, 12:53 »

Sliding head 1st against a rock from 300m tends to do that buddha.
Yup, nonetheless it's never funny when it happens, whether you know the guy or not! Self arrest people, learn it, train it and practice it on the field! It could save your life some day!


To me the danger of climbing is also one of the thrills... If I wanted a safe "sport" I would have gone for chess...

« Last Edit: Oct 22 2004, 12:56 by Buddha »
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MikeW

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Re: What is the hardest summit to climb?
« Reply #13 on: Oct 22 2004, 20:15 »

Hey Guys!

Many times, people dies because of a lack of judgment. They don't know their own capabilities, they don't turn from the summit  when they should (prime example is Everest 1996). Look how many deaths occured after summiting, people over extend and they don't have the energy to come down the mountain.

On Elbrus this year, my guide told me that 2 fellow Canadians climbed to the summit in bad temperature (whiteout conditions) and wanted to do the other summit (the east one), she refused (yeah the guide was a beautiful woman  ;)) but the clients did it anyway and they were never seen again.

Not to say that climbing does not have inherent risks, but if you do it in an intelligent way, it could be pretty safe. My model for this philosophy is the American climber Ed Viesturs who has climbed 13 out of the 14 8000m peaks and has been on top of Everest 6 times (I think!) and turned around on Annapurna (his last 8000m summit) twice because of unstable snow condition when other climbers continue and made the summit.

MikeW
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Buddha

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Re: What is the hardest summit to climb?
« Reply #14 on: Oct 23 2004, 00:20 »

Not to say that climbing does not have inherent risks, but if you do it in an intelligent way, it could be pretty safe. My model for this philosophy is the American climber Ed Viesturs who has climbed 13 out of the 14 8000m peaks and has been on top of Everest 6 times (I think!) and turned around on Annapurna (his last 8000m summit) twice because of unstable snow condition when other climbers continue and made the summit.
MikeW

Absolutely Mike, knowing your capabilities is a must!
I have an example as well. There was a Swedish adventurer called Göran Kropp who passed away 2 years ago. When he tried to summit Everest the first time he had to turn around and go back down just as he had climbed almost all of the Hillary Step. He returned a few days later to make a successful summit!  :D
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Ron

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Re: What is the hardest summit to climb?
« Reply #15 on: Oct 23 2004, 04:24 »

I think a lot off accidents happen to very experianced climbers too. Been there , done it , doing it again. Summited....on the way back (yep you also have to get down :eek)) and get lazy/unconcentrated. lot of people i know of went that why. top climbers too :?)
« Last Edit: Oct 23 2004, 23:14 by Ron »
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smrtnupp

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Re: What is the hardest summit to climb?
« Reply #16 on: Oct 23 2004, 12:23 »

I am definately sticking to chess!!!  :lol)

Bravo to you who climb and stay safe, geesh I get dizzy climbing the kitchen chair to change the lightbulb.

I wished I had the courage to do it......... fascinating world this climbing is!!!!

Hope you don't mind me living it through you all!!!!

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trunl

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Re: What is the hardest summit to climb?
« Reply #17 on: Oct 24 2004, 09:38 »

What constitues an amateur? A guy that only read about climbing in mountains and gained knowledge about it, is he still an amateur? In that case stay away trunl...

right.... buddha, i will because i HAVE read so much about it and am informed that it should NOT be someones first, or even second, 8000er.

so whats your argument????


trunl
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Buddha

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Re: What is the hardest summit to climb?
« Reply #18 on: Oct 24 2004, 17:00 »

My arguement is still and will continue to be that however good knowledge from books is it will NEVER be better then first hand experience that you get from practicing a certain thing. You can say that you've read all the books about mountaineering there is and I still would see you as an amateur until you've proved that you managed to climb a mountain...

If I read 50 books about deep-sea diving, does that make me a pro at deep-sea diving or would I still consitute an amateur? If I'm still an amateur what differs me from you?
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7summits

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Re: What is the hardest summit to climb?
« Reply #19 on: Oct 24 2004, 17:11 »

You 2 agree more than you think..

I think Trunl's argument is that you can learn from books the fact that you need first hand experience in mountains to become experienced.
Which sounds like a contradictio in Terminis, but is actually valid.  8)

 O0
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Ron

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Re: What is the hardest summit to climb?
« Reply #20 on: Oct 24 2004, 18:56 »

You cant learn stamina, hardship, illness, feeling bad/sick, fitness, mental stability, Hardening i all condition AND so on in books.

PERIOD
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7summits

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Re: What is the hardest summit to climb?
« Reply #21 on: Oct 24 2004, 19:04 »

You cant learn stamina, hardship, illness, feeling bad/sick, fitness, mental stability, Hardening i all condition AND so on in books.

PERIOD
Correct. Any climbing book or website will tell you this  ;D
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Buddha

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Re: What is the hardest summit to climb?
« Reply #22 on: Oct 25 2004, 02:58 »

You 2 agree more than you think..
I think Trunl's argument is that you can learn from books the fact that you need first hand experience in mountains to become experienced.
Which sounds like a contradictio in Terminis, but is actually valid.  8)

So Harry, would you agree with trunl's statement and say that he is a professional mountaineer based on reading books only? Would I then be a Pro Deep-Sea diver if I read boks about that?

Of course it's good to read books.. I read books, I watch movies, I get out in the wilderness and mountains, all to gain the experience and know-how to survive and climb mountains. There are things though that you can't learn from books, like Ron says. How about a simple thing like your stove breaks down? I've never read a book that tells me how to fix it, but still I can with my multi-tool (Thanks Leatherman) and the reason I can is because I've read the manual (not a book) and also used common sense in fixing it again. Does a book tell you how to pitch a tent when it's a white-out and windy? I think not! Learning by reading is fair enough, I never said no to that. What I've said is that you can never get the experience to call yourself pro or even experienced mountaineer from reading books only. That is what trunl says. That he is a pro mountaineer! Learning by doing is far better in getting the knowledge and experience to call yourself en experienced or even pro mountaineer...

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7summits

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Re: What is the hardest summit to climb?
« Reply #23 on: Oct 25 2004, 03:14 »

Hey Buddha,

read my answer above carefully, as you seem to be missing the point I made. I do not say that Trunl is experienced, but neither does he.
I mentioned that a book is a good place to learn for the first time that only on mountains you can get experience 8)

Or a website for that matter... what if people do not read books or sites and just head off for the hills not knowing that they need to build up to mountains like Everest slowly and securely?

Of course I completely agree with having to go really out to learn real things, but this (knowing that you have to go out and not just read) is something that can be found in books...
 O0
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Ron

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Re: What is the hardest summit to climb?
« Reply #24 on: Oct 25 2004, 04:04 »

All well and fine but it would be helpful if you are on a forum and have EVERYTHING to learn (and if you only read books you still have too) take notice on what people are saying  and dont be  liek "mr know it all" but stay low.
Also do not spread your "wisdom" without being able to fall back on ANY experiance andstay until you do and know what you talk about.
And that goes for everyone
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Buddha

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Re: What is the hardest summit to climb?
« Reply #25 on: Oct 25 2004, 04:08 »

Actually I must admit that I've misread and misinterpritted the message by trunl where he says in answer to my question about being experienced or not from book reading only and final statement that he should stay away...

right.... buddha, i will because i HAVE read so much about it and am informed that it should NOT be someones first, or even second, 8000er.

First I thought that he meant he would be an experienced mountaineer but would stay away from Annapurna, and I still think he meant that. But that goes for me...

If I had left out the last "stay away trunl" I'm quite sure I would have received a different answer since he stated in other topics around this forum that he is not a beginner but an experienced mountaineer...
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smrtnupp

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Re: What is the hardest summit to climb?
« Reply #26 on: Oct 25 2004, 05:23 »

If you were to become a Doctor, Lawyer, Accountant - the very first thing you do is pick up a book.... for a period of time you would learn from that book.... when you are done reading the books, the foundation of what you have learned from those books start to form, then you start your practical experience, hands on. You in fact are not considered a Doctor, Lawyer or Accountant until you have had the hands on exerience combined with theory.

Would it not be safe to say, a new climber should read everything they can "before" attemtping a "small" climb.

I see it as both, reading and actively climbing before one could call themself experienced. I will never climb and I continue to read, I may be well informed on climbing, but that does not make me experienced.
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7summits

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Re: What is the hardest summit to climb?
« Reply #27 on: Oct 25 2004, 14:26 »

If you were to become a Doctor, Lawyer, Accountant - the very first thing you do is pick up a book.... for a period of time you would learn from that book.... when you are done reading the books, the foundation of what you have learned from those books start to form, then you start your practical experience, hands on. You in fact are not considered a Doctor, Lawyer or Accountant until you have had the hands on exerience combined with theory.

Would it not be safe to say, a new climber should read everything they can "before" attemtping a "small" climb.

I see it as both, reading and actively climbing before one could call themself experienced. I will never climb and I continue to read, I may be well informed on climbing, but that does not make me experienced.

Totally agree. First thing you need to learn is that you only gain real experience in the the mountains, but that it is dangerous to just head out without any previous knowledge.
Go on a course, hire a guide and read before you start the course.

What if someone new to climbing just said:
"Ah, I read on some website that you can only get experience in the mountains, so I am not going to bother reading 'Freedom of the hills' but just go up Mt Rainier tomorrow. I guess that my nike's and cotton sweater will be warm enough to make it up and down, it's just another hill isn't it?."

You can learn from books/sites outdoor shops what a crampon is, clothing layers, AMS and more. You can read about epics and discuss with otherw why it (almost) went wrong. But as Buddha said you can never learn how to fix a stove at -20 from your armchair and it would help if someone who has done it before is with you at the time that happens.
Every mountain can be dangerous.

You can get experience of how to get killed in the mountains only once.

Be prepared, know your basics (can be done by reading books/sites, visiting outdoor shops  ;), talking to other climbers) and when you go out, bring a more experienced partner, or go on a course which is essentially the same thing.

But make sure who you talk to. Someone who wants to climb Rainier/Denali/Whitney/Everest and has read all about it is not the same as someone who has actually been there and can share his/her firsthand experience.

Now Trunl, where are those Whitney pics? Just show them and we can all close this case  8)

 O0
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Buddha

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Re: What is the hardest summit to climb?
« Reply #28 on: Oct 26 2004, 03:46 »

Now, I never stated that you can't learn a grat deal from books. I just said that you can't go from beginner to experienced just by reading books.

Now on to the actual topic... We were talking about dangerous mountains. Although Mt. Elbrus is a "beginners" mountain without any technical climbing it is dangerous. Here are some statistics for the last season on Elbrus:

Some words about the 2004 season:
- There are about 15% visitors more than in 2003. The tendency is same as for the last 4-5 years.
- Technical, physical skills and motivation of climbers (in common) go lower from year to year. Elbrus becomes a popular destination. However it is still dangerous mountain. 48 climbers died in the area this season.

I'm looking forward to tackle this mountain next season with hopefully a lot of guys from these forums. With Harry's guidance (I hope) we will all summit the mountain and come back down safely.
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smrtnupp

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Re: What is the hardest summit to climb?
« Reply #29 on: Oct 26 2004, 07:07 »

Ouch!!!! Getting alittle rough in here  :(

But I have to agree with a few of the comments Budha has made. I would tend to believe most of what I read, within reason of course, as I am naive in this new world. Not that I am personally in any danger of bad advice, but those who do come to read and learn with the intent of climbing could be at risk of being misguided.

Trunl,
How wonderful that there are climbers on here that have been there, done that. If you are in fact 15 years old, and you have this great desire of "becoming" an experienced climber, sit back and take in whatever knowledge you can from these experienced climbers, their advice could save your life one day!!! Be a sponge and suck it up. Not that long ago, none of us would have had the luxury of learning "online" like we do today. I will be your greatest fan by watching your accomplishments and progress!!!! I also love to read your posts.
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Buddha

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Re: What is the hardest summit to climb?
« Reply #30 on: Oct 26 2004, 08:35 »

Ouch!!!! Getting alittle rough in here  :(

Well, it wasn't really my intention at first but at some point I need to let it out! I agree with you that I think it's wonderful that trunl wants to climb the seven summits. You are also completely right when you say he should be like a sponge and suck in all the info here. I'm here for that same reason, to suck in information and maybe (hopefully) get to know a few people in the process...

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Re:What is the hardest summit to climb?
« Reply #31 on: Sep 27 2006, 19:53 »

most talk about how the mental challenges are the hardest, yet most people cant handle them. the other day, when i went to the dentist, and found i had a cavity, i told him no gas or antiseptic just to see if i could handle the pain. it was unbelievable, and i will probably never do it again, but anyway like i was saying the mental is the hardest, so i say vinson is the most challenging

This is hilarious. Focus on the primary mental aspect of mountaineering: discipline.
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Kilimanjaro (2005), Elbrus (2006), Kosciuszko (2010), next is Aconcagua
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