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Author Topic: What is the 7th summit: is it Carstensz, Kosciuszko or Mt Cook??  (Read 132887 times)

jedi-knight

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woah!...we are back discussing on CP vs K vs MC.

i think.....no no no...i hope.....if i reach the stage of completing of the 7summits, i'll just do all 3  ;D

that way, no one will dispute it and say that i didnt do the correct version, etc.
*sigh*....are we going to argue about Elbrus vs Mt Blanc too?  ???
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m.c. reinhardt

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woah!...we are back discussing on CP vs K vs MC.

i think.....no no no...i hope.....if i reach the stage of completing of the 7summits, i'll just do all 3  ;D

Hey, JK, I think you might want to rephrase this...doing all 3.  ;)   ;D  Just kidding, I know what you meant.


*sigh*....are we going to argue about Elbrus vs Mt Blanc too?  ???

I am guessing that no one will be arguing about Elbrus vs Mt Blanc.  The two men who are credited with the 7 summit's lists both agree that it is Elbrus.  We should be good on this one!   ::)   ;D

Cheers
MC 
« Last Edit: Jun 27 2006, 02:47 by mc »
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Mountain John

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Hey Bill,

yes, very cool to meet.  wow, i didn't realize you were with 7summits/7 summitsclub!  that is sweet.  so yes, you know Harry, and then Lorenzo and Noel too.  of course, I climbed with them last year.  since they are all my Everest family, I guess you are now my step brother!  :)

well, next presentation is July 12 in Sacramento.  if you go, you can join me, Tim and the gang for dinner afterwards.  but that is a little drive, so, as far as the Bay Area, I am working out another presentation with a different store, and will let you know.

I understood what you are saying about you and the book.  totally.  your dream, i get it.  and also, I hope guides keep this as "pure" as it is now, and don't put in chairlifts anytime soon, on these mountains!

Good luck raising money for Everest.  I am working on sponsor ideas, and will let you know if they work.

Mountain John
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Bill

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I did get to know Harry, Lorenzo and Noel. I really liked them. Great guys and I am glad Lorenzo and Noel made summit. Glad to be a part of the family!

What time on the 12th?
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Mountain John

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REI presentation
« Reply #84 on: Jun 28 2006, 02:12 »

Bill, start time is 7:00 pm sharp.  I am supposed to finish at 8:30, but have gone past that every time, as there is so much to cover.

REI came out with 7summits shirts a couple years ago, and North Face just came out with 7summits jackets, but they are pretty lame.  I am in marketing, so I will advise North Face I can do much better for them!!  :)

Description
here

Directions:
here

Yes, I have met so many people too.  For instance, Tim will be there again, and we'll have dinner with his friends.  Tim just attempted Denali earlier this month.  That would have been his 50th (and last) State Highpoint, and his 1st continent.  He did everything right, but had problem teammates, and had to abort his attempt for safety reasons.  good decision.

John
« Last Edit: Sep 27 2006, 20:04 by 7summits »
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617

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Historically the word continent means a continguous land mass. Think of the sayings; "the continental United States" (not including Hawaii), "the australian continent".  People in the UK would often say that he or she is "on the continent" when they travelled to Europe.
Certainly here in australia we refer to Continental Australia, ie Tasmania is not on the Australian continent.

I've never come across a grouping which includes islands as part of continents; I suspect this is a new trend, so there now is SOME reference to the UK being part of the Continent of Europe. 

But really really really really the reason this is being argued is that Kosciousko is too boring to be included.  Come ON!



There is another reason: it's so much fun to see the Ozzies get pissed off about it:)
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Kilimanjaro (2005), Elbrus (2006), Kosciuszko (2010), next is Aconcagua

rbarta

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By continent it is K.  Since the exact phrase "Seven Summits" comes from Dick Bass and he used the Encyclopedia Brittanica at the time he climbed to define the seven, then "Seven Summits" should be K.  According to how he chose, if the oceans drained and Guinea then connected to Australia by land bridge, then it would change to C.  Our planet is ever changing and I have no problem with the 7 changing as the planet does over thousands, perhaps millions of years.  I don't think we should change the definition of continent to mean tectonic plate, or then we will have 15 continents (or more). 

By tectonic plates it is C.  However, by tectonic plate, there would be many more than 7 summits to conquer.  Those talking about tectonic plates saying that it excludes Denali/Elbrus probably have not seen a diagram of the plates.  There are 7 major plates and many other minor ones and I can pretty much make them fit the seven defined by those choosing C.  African (Kilimanjaro), Antarctica (Vinson), South America (Aconcagua), North American (Denali), Eurasian (Elbrus), Australasia (Carstensz) and Indian (Everest).  However, this replaces the major Pacific plate with the smaller Indian plate and leaves out many other small but significant plates (Pacific, Arabian, Caribbean, Scotia, Nazca, Cocos and Juan de Fuca).  Also it begs the question, is Everest on the Indian or Eurasian plate, is Denali on the North American or Pacific Plate and is Aconcagua on the South American or Pacific plate as they are each formed by the interaction between the plates.  In any case, if we are to define by plates we should end up with 15 summits (possibly more) and perhaps one of you can be the first to accomplish that feat!!!! 

Likewise, if we are to use the "land bridge thousands of years ago" reasoning, then Denali gets excluded as NA/SA were connected same with Elbrus and Kilimanjaro and the list becomes C, E, V, A....only 4 summits.  In fact it was all connected at one point in the earths history, so we just get Everest, 1 summit.

Once you start changing the definition, the whole concept can be changed and perhaps end up with something different than 7 summits.  I plan to climb them both because I like to see the world, climb mountains and challenge myself; but the more I think about it, the more I think K is the 7th as originally defined and C is changing the definition which brings into question the whole idea of 7.

BTW, I love how the C list is defined as the Messner list, though Pat Morrow was the first to climb it and Messner took the time to climb K before he finished the 7 (both versions) on Vinson.  And when Pat Morrow did the Messner version he said 'Being a climber first and a collector second, I felt strongly that Carstensz Pyramid, the highest mountain in Australasia … was a true mountaineer’s objective.'  Funny, I've never heard of a continent called Australasia, that's the name of a tectonic plate.  Also, I'm beginning to think that the 7 are a collection that won't necessarily appeal to the mountaineering professional.
« Last Edit: Jun 7 2007, 19:56 by rbarta »
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Kilimanjaro - March 9, 2007
Kosciuszko - Nov 18, 2007
Elbrus - July 16, 2008

MikeW

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Hey Robert!

I think that the issue has been discussed at length here and at a lot of other places, but the major argument against K is, in my humble opinion, that every pieces of land on this planet should be part of a continent. It doesn't make sense that Hawaii or the Carribean or Papua should be excluded from a continent. And if you include all of the islands into continent, than one of the indicator is the tectonic plates, it's not the only indicator but it is a strong one. And that is why the island of Papua is part of Oceania (that's the name of the 7th continent, it's been used in French for a very long time, Océanie).

MikeW
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rbarta

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Yes, discussed at length and I just read through it all.

That each piece of land on this Earth should be part of a continent does not fit the definition of Continent.  "Continents are understood to be large, continuous, discrete masses of land, ideally separated by expanses of water."  Then again, Europe does not fit this definition, unless we are to let "ideally" slip to nothing.  Never made sense to me as a kid in school either.  Changing the definition to meet geological discoveries (to me) is wrong, and if you do that, surely the first thing to drop is Europe from the list of continents.  It is what it is.  If we are to include continental shelf or beyond, or all islands, or tectonic plates, then that is a different word with a different definition.

Besides, I just can't figure out what continent Hawaii would be part of....Pacifica?  Then we gotta climb Mauna Kea, the 8th summit.  See what I mean, you change the definition of Continent and then you get more (or less) summits.  And that is alright, but a different challenge.  Some have changed definitions to include C, but not applied the same reasons to the rest of the world so they can still have 7.

(This reminds me of my girlfriends brother in Hawaii telling me that Mauna Kea is the worlds highest mountain because it rises from the sea floor.  I said that the definition of highest is measured from sea level, but he insisted.  So I told him that the highest is Chimborazo in Equador because it is farthest from the center of the earth.  See what happens when you change the definition)  And with that, I'm adding Mauna Kea and Chimborazo to my list of things to do.
« Last Edit: Jun 9 2007, 02:26 by rbarta »
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Kilimanjaro - March 9, 2007
Kosciuszko - Nov 18, 2007
Elbrus - July 16, 2008
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