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Author Topic: The second highest summit on every continent!  (Read 42749 times)

Guestclimber

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The second highest summit on every continent!
« on: Nov 1 2003, 21:21 »

Hi!
Has there been any serious tries on the second highest mountain on every continent?
Some years back I was at the Annapurna BC with Polish team. They had been drinking a bit and one of guys, disappointed with the weather and their progress on the BIG one, started boil on the idea of trying out the idea of attempting all the second highest peaks on each continent.
Has anyone heard about any serious attempts on such a project?
One thing for sure...it's not easier than the 7 highest...
« Last Edit: Feb 12 2004, 07:08 by 7summits »
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Ron

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Re:The second highest summit on every continent!
« Reply #1 on: Nov 2 2003, 23:40 »

hehehe ;D

and after that we climb the 3rd highest of each continent. ;)
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trunl

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Re:The second highest summit on every continent!
« Reply #2 on: Nov 9 2003, 06:56 »

yes, there have been many serious tries and many successfull summits. by the way they are not all harder, only about three of them are, the rest are a walk in the park.
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Corsair

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A walk int the park?
« Reply #3 on: Feb 5 2004, 06:01 »

BullMrHanky Trunl.
Basically ALL the second summits are more difficult.

Beyond discussion

Everest - K2
Elbrus - Dychtau
Kilimanjaro - Mt Kenya
Mt Vinson - Mt Tyree
Carstenz/Puncak Jaya - Puncak Trikora

Arguable.

Denali - Mt Logan
Aconcagua - Ojos De Salado

I have no clue about your standards or referencies, but none of the seconds are a walk in the park if you ask me.

Corsair.
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7000

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Re:The second highest summit on every continent!
« Reply #4 on: Feb 8 2004, 20:26 »

hahaha you just got your ass thoroughly kicked!

Still, interested to know what your 7 summits plans are.


yes, there have been many serious tries and many successfull summits. by the way they are not all harder, only about three of them are, the rest are a walk in the park.
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trunl

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Re:The second highest summit on every continent!
« Reply #5 on: Feb 9 2004, 05:34 »

uh, no. some of the ones u listed are eaiser than the highest. and second, its not carstensz, its australia, and the second highest on australia is definately easier than kos.
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Corsair

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Re:The second highest summit on every continent!
« Reply #6 on: Feb 9 2004, 09:26 »

OK, let's leave the ever present Puncak Jaya/Carstenz vs. Kosciuszko question aside.

Back to to the rest of the list:

Everest - K2
Elbrus - Dychtau
Kilimanjaro - Mt Kenya
Mt Vinson - Mt Tyree

Which one Trunl?
A direct answer on a direct question, please.
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Corsair

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Re:The second highest summit on every continent!
« Reply #7 on: Feb 9 2004, 21:49 »

7000,

My plans.
Licking my wounds, recover from frost bite and have a real think about the 7.
It's interesting in some ways, in some ways not. As I see it, it's not worth the costs if you only climb one summit on each continent. Peak bagging is not my thing. On the other hand, if the project is combined with more climbing of other peaks close to the 7, it could be very interesting. After all, you end up going to places you wouldn't hardly visit otherwise and the idea of having a long term project suits me fine.
So, basically, my plan is to find out if The Plan I have in mind is realistic. :)
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trunl

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Re:The second highest summit on every continent!
« Reply #8 on: Feb 10 2004, 07:02 »

Dychtau and mt kenya, COULD be looked at as easier.
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Ron

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Re:The second highest summit on every continent!
« Reply #9 on: Feb 10 2004, 13:34 »

Could???   be specifiek
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trunl

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Re:The second highest summit on every continent!
« Reply #10 on: Feb 11 2004, 05:21 »

not everyone thinks they are harder than the tallers ones, but some people do, so i wont say they are harder, i will say they COULD be looked at as harder.
« Last Edit: Feb 12 2004, 15:57 by 7summits »
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Re:A walk int the park?
« Reply #11 on: Feb 12 2004, 18:24 »


Basically ALL the second summits are more difficult.
Beyond discussion

Everest - K2
Elbrus - Dychtau
Kilimanjaro - Mt Kenya
Mt Vinson - Mt Tyree
Carstenz/Puncak Jaya - Puncak Trikora

Arguable.

Denali - Mt Logan
Aconcagua - Ojos De Salado

I have no clue about your standards or referencies, but none of the seconds are a walk in the park if you ask me.

Corsair.

Hey Corsair,
a little remark: the 2nd highest is not Trikora (Wilhelmina) peak. There is a lot of confusion about the 2nd as snowcaps are melting and there are many different names for the same peaks.
Anyway, #2 used to be Ngga Pulu, the ice covered mountain across the valley. That one is certainly easier to climb, I walked up there in 1999. But seemingly even since then so much ice has melted that one of the other peaks on that side might be higher, although no real measurements have been made recently. Anyway, all of these points are higher than Trikora and all of them are easier to climb than Carstensz.
Oh and Ojos is certainly easier I just found out  8)
I already talked about this discussion in the FAQ by the way.
Thanks,
Harry

Carstensz/Puncak Jaya: 4884
Ngga Pulu/Puncak Jaya: 4862 (old measurement)
Puncak Soemantri Brodjonegoro (other names?) 4855
Puncak Cartenz Timur (East Carstensz peak?) 4860
Puncak Trikora (Wilhelmina peak) 4740
Harrer had his own names as well for the peaks named after the days of the week.
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Corsair

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Re:The second highest summit on every continent!
« Reply #12 on: Feb 12 2004, 18:47 »

Hmmm.
Back to another old problem in mountaineering.
A peak or a side peak.
I remember a person claiming to have climbed the three highest peaks in Oceania, based on the facts that they were:
Puncak Jaya, Ngga Pulu and Puncak Pilimsit.
He got blasted by a representative from a certain climbing organization based in Switzerland, which had another way to look at the whole thing.
According to them, Ngga Pulu is a side peak and that made Trikora the second highest because Pilimsit was not even talked about.
I wonder if there will be any type of "official" list anytime, that all climbers can agree on.
If i remember right, the discussion ended in a list with the following order:
P. Jaya, P. Trikora and P. Mandala.
The reason for that was that no one could disagree on that they are all peaks in the true sense of the word and not side peaks of a main summit.
Trivial questions sometimes...
I just saw that a discussion about the 14 has come up again. Lhotse Shar is in the center of it...is it a peak or a secondary one...
Trivial questions in mountaineering somtimes :-)

Ojos De Salado.
No problems with water access?
I was in the Puna some years back and it's DRY!

BTW. I like your list of the Oceanian mountains. Very close in between the peaks   8)
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7summits

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Re:The second highest summit on every continent!
« Reply #13 on: Feb 12 2004, 19:20 »

yeah, that discussion is also a valid one, when is a mountain a mountaina dn when is it a peak of a massif?
That will come back in every discussion about lists: Alps' 4000ers, Munroes etc.
It is quite a compact massif, seeing from the valley the peaks are quite obvious. But then again the valley itself is already high.

You could also say that Lhotse (all of them  8))is a subpeak of the Everest massif...

You can drive up to 5200m (camp1) at Ojos, so you can/must bring water up. Around camp 2 (5800) there are plenty penitentes and a glacier, so enough water to melt. I really liked the place.
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trunl

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Re:The second highest summit on every continent!
« Reply #14 on: Feb 13 2004, 10:05 »

just climb all of them!  ;D

(im kidding).
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Corsair

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Re:The second highest summit on every continent!
« Reply #15 on: Feb 14 2004, 05:14 »

You're right trunl.
For sure these two peaks are easier than Elbrus and Kili.
Especially Dychtau, only 5B along the easier routes.
Straight forward climbing as well, basically a walk.



Mt Kenya also looks like a walk in the park, much easier than Kili.



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Ron

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Re:The second highest summit on every continent!
« Reply #16 on: Feb 14 2004, 13:40 »

omg  ;D
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trunl

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Re: The second highest summit on every continent!
« Reply #17 on: May 21 2004, 05:06 »

i bet i can find a picture that makes kili look harder than mt. kenya.
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Corsair

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Re: The second highest summit on every continent!
« Reply #18 on: May 21 2004, 05:30 »

Deal!
Take your time... :)

Anyway, I'll give you first hand reports in three months or so. I have not been to Dychtau, Elbrus, Mt Kenya or Kili yet. Soon...
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matty

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Re: The second highest summit on every continent!
« Reply #20 on: May 23 2004, 05:25 »

trunl, you are talking absolute MrHanky. the standard route on mt kenya is considerably harder than on kili. it comprises several hvd/severe pitches and kili is just a stroll although it is higher.
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trunl

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Re: The second highest summit on every continent!
« Reply #21 on: May 23 2004, 06:54 »

he challenged me to find the pictures and i did. anything else?
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MoT

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Re: The second highest summit on every continent!
« Reply #22 on: Jun 4 2004, 16:22 »

Trunl, that doesn't prove squat...

You could show a picture of someone standing on the summit of Mount Everest without an oxygen mask on in sunshine and then somebody crawling up the summit slopes of Kosciusko in a storm because the wind blew them over - that could mislead too.

You should try not to get drawn into these sort of arguments, it's too easy for a sensible discussion to get bogged down with insults and petty squabbles
« Last Edit: Jun 5 2004, 06:11 by MoT »
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trunl

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Re: The second highest summit on every continent!
« Reply #23 on: Jun 28 2004, 05:11 »

the difference between the everest person and kosciuszuko person is that those are people and their actions can be changed. mountains cannot be changed. i got pictures from different views than normally observed. i fullfilled my challenge.

now i have a challenge to you, can you find the two pictures you described? just kidding.  ;D ;D

trunl
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MoT

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Re: The second highest summit on every continent!
« Reply #24 on: Jun 29 2004, 20:42 »

Ok!  ;D

Me on Kosciuszko

   :lol)


Tenzing Norgay on Everest on a lovely day   :P    >:D (ok he still has the mask on!)



« Last Edit: Sep 16 2004, 16:58 by MoT »
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trunl

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Re: The second highest summit on every continent!
« Reply #25 on: Jun 29 2004, 22:02 »

obviously you did not get the JUST KIDDING part of my challenge.

trunl
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MoT

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Re: The second highest summit on every continent!
« Reply #26 on: Jun 30 2004, 15:29 »

Of course i did dude!  :lol)


Just can't ignore a challenge though!   :P


Well? Did i pass? Did I? Huh? Huh? Did I?

 ;D
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trunl

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Re: The second highest summit on every continent!
« Reply #27 on: Jun 30 2004, 23:07 »

i sense a tone of sarcasm.

trunl
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Ron

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Re: The second highest summit on every continent!
« Reply #28 on: Jun 30 2004, 23:41 »

keep it cool gusy hehehe  you both passed ;D
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7summits

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Re: The second highest summit on every continent!
« Reply #29 on: Jul 1 2004, 03:56 »

Haha, that pic on Kozzie is cool!
Robert Mads Anderson had his epic there as well! Really!

Enjoy summer!  O0
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Corsair

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Re: The second highest summit on every continent!
« Reply #30 on: Jul 16 2004, 14:41 »

Back to the core of the "debate".
I just came back from Russia and this is my opinon and experiences:

1. Dychtau - long, dangerous, multi-pitch and super-hard climb. Probably (unless you're a very fast climber, who wanna take extreme risks) with bivacs on the face or the summit-crest. All routes are extremely exposed to winds, avalanches and rock/icefalls. Most routes ED, some TD.
The southern routes contains less objective dangers, but on the other hand tough rock climbing all the way to the summit. 5-6 grade in many places as far as I could judge. Parts of it ranging from easy to hard 4's.

2. Elbrus - A walk on snow and ice. Never steep. I climbed both summits in 4 h 50 min.

3. The avalanche danger was extreme on Dychtau and any serious attempts from the north was not my game. Not enough on my rack to give the southern routes a try.

4. According to my opinion, Dychtau is in a completely different league than Elbrus.

Photos later.
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Corsair

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Re: The second highest summit on every continent!
« Reply #31 on: Dec 21 2004, 05:04 »

Hi Trunl!
I Promised you some photos from two of the second highest summits on two of the continents. Now I've been to those places and can provide you with photos of my own.

As there are quite a lot of photos of Kilimanjaro and Elbrus around, I guess you can compare with the two underneath.

The North face of Dychtau. Reckoned by most mountianeers as one of the hardest climbs in Europe. The contender which many alpinists mention is Ushba, which may be an equally hard climb, but Dychtau is considered as a much more dangerous ascent, as the peak is plagued with lots of avalanches and basically no obvious routes.



The easiest route on Mt Kenya is clearly seen on the below photo. 20 pitches of mixed grades. The "Messner Route" on Kili is probably harder, but then again, Mt Kenya has other faces much harder than the one on the photo. Photo shot from the summit of Lenana 4985 m.



If you want more photos of the two mountains, just drop me a line and I'll email them.

Cheers, Corsair.
« Last Edit: Dec 21 2004, 05:47 by Corsair »
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Corsair

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Re: The second highest summit on every continent!
« Reply #32 on: Mar 28 2005, 21:10 »

Harry,

I have to contest something said earlier in this thread.
The statement that Ojos Del Salado is an easier climb than Aconcagua.

Facts:
Aconcagua is graded to F everywhere and it's never necessary to rope up.
Ojos Del Salado is graded PD almost everywhere I've looked. The exceptions are an AD in two places and a F/PD in one place. The rock-climbing section in the end is a 5.4-5-5 (US)/II-III(UIAA) and that falls in the AD category.

Would you climb all the way to the top on Ojos without considering using a rope?
I'm sure you do on Aco?

I climbed the peak myself a week back and I definitely think Ojos is the harder peak. On the other hand, I had crap conditions. 24-26m/s, constant whiteouts and a long distance on the attack day (started from 7.3km, raven's way. C alt. 5400m).
That made me go for the Dorse direct route, just in order to minimize the distance and stay out of the wind as possible. This route contains 450m vert.m glacier climbing at 40-50 degrees and is on the Argentinian side of the peak, so it's not really compairable with the standard route in Chile, but the summit's last 30 meters are still there with semi-technical rock.

C.
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7summits

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Re: The second highest summit on every continent!
« Reply #33 on: Mar 28 2005, 21:49 »

Hey Corsair,

well done, sounds like fun  8)
Looking back I would not go there without at least a short rope. Did not need it then but many will. Also when it is really icey, it will be useful.

So you are right, depends on how you look at it: the last 30 meters are tougher than on Aconcagua, but overall Ojos is easier due to the easy approach: you can drive to 5200m easily (fun!) and if you are confident and the road is clear, even all the way to 5800m. The track is just as easy as on Acon, maybe even easier as there is no Canaleta (though there is a part just before the crater where I let out quite a few bad words while sliding back 1 step for every two steps up).

I think AD is grossly overrated, would say F with one section of 5.4 rock.
Do you have any pics?

Cheers,
H
 O0
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Corsair

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Re: The second highest summit on every continent!
« Reply #34 on: Mar 28 2005, 22:21 »

H,

If I had arrived from the Chilean side, sitting in a jeep up to 5500-5800m on a sunny day, I may have said Ojos is much easier than Aco.
;)
I walked solo from Incahuasi (6621m, which I summited two days earlier), with provisions for 12-14 days. The weather was really crap, no good maps, illegal crossings into Chile, 4 passes over 5600m etc.
:D

I think AD is grossly overrated, would say F with one section of 5.4 rock.


So do I in a way. I talked to some Argentinian climbers about this and they argued that the technical part was at the worst possible place, i.e. just underneath the summit on an almost 7000m high peak. True, but still...
According to "my rating system", it can never ever be a F though. F is a non-tech ascent, a complete walk up and if there is any talks about using ropes it is at least a PD.

Do you have any pics?


I should have. Shot a roll and a half on summit day. Lousy weather, so the result will probably be bad. Do you wanna have a look at them later?

C.
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