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[matty]

trunl, you are talking absolute MrHanky. the standard route on mt kenya is considerably harder than on kili. it comprises several hvd/severe pitches and kili is just a stroll although it is higher.

[trunl]

he challenged me to find the pictures and i did. anything else?

[MoT]

Trunl, that doesn't prove squat...

You could show a picture of someone standing on the summit of Mount Everest without an oxygen mask on in sunshine and then somebody crawling up the summit slopes of Kosciusko in a storm because the wind blew them over - that could mislead too.

You should try not to get drawn into these sort of arguments, it's too easy for a sensible discussion to get bogged down with insults and petty squabbles

[trunl]

the difference between the everest person and kosciuszuko person is that those are people and their actions can be changed. mountains cannot be changed. i got pictures from different views than normally observed. i fullfilled my challenge.

now i have a challenge to you, can you find the two pictures you described? just kidding. 

trunl

[MoT]

Ok! 

Me on Kosciuszko

   :lol)


Tenzing Norgay on Everest on a lovely day       (ok he still has the mask on!)

[trunl]

obviously you did not get the JUST KIDDING part of my challenge.

trunl

[MoT]

Of course i did dude!  :lol)


Just can't ignore a challenge though!   


Well? Did i pass? Did I? Huh? Huh? Did I?

 

[trunl]

i sense a tone of sarcasm.

trunl

[Ron]

keep it cool gusy hehehe  you both passed

[7summits]

Haha, that pic on Kozzie is cool!
Robert Mads Anderson had his epic there as well! Really!

Enjoy summer! 

[Corsair]

Back to the core of the "debate".
I just came back from Russia and this is my opinon and experiences:

1. Dychtau - long, dangerous, multi-pitch and super-hard climb. Probably (unless you're a very fast climber, who wanna take extreme risks) with bivacs on the face or the summit-crest. All routes are extremely exposed to winds, avalanches and rock/icefalls. Most routes ED, some TD.
The southern routes contains less objective dangers, but on the other hand tough rock climbing all the way to the summit. 5-6 grade in many places as far as I could judge. Parts of it ranging from easy to hard 4's.

2. Elbrus - A walk on snow and ice. Never steep. I climbed both summits in 4 h 50 min.

3. The avalanche danger was extreme on Dychtau and any serious attempts from the north was not my game. Not enough on my rack to give the southern routes a try.

4. According to my opinion, Dychtau is in a completely different league than Elbrus.

Photos later.

[Corsair]

Hi Trunl!
I Promised you some photos from two of the second highest summits on two of the continents. Now I've been to those places and can provide you with photos of my own.

As there are quite a lot of photos of Kilimanjaro and Elbrus around, I guess you can compare with the two underneath.

The North face of Dychtau. Reckoned by most mountianeers as one of the hardest climbs in Europe. The contender which many alpinists mention is Ushba, which may be an equally hard climb, but Dychtau is considered as a much more dangerous ascent, as the peak is plagued with lots of avalanches and basically no obvious routes.



The easiest route on Mt Kenya is clearly seen on the below photo. 20 pitches of mixed grades. The "Messner Route" on Kili is probably harder, but then again, Mt Kenya has other faces much harder than the one on the photo. Photo shot from the summit of Lenana 4985 m.



If you want more photos of the two mountains, just drop me a line and I'll email them.

Cheers, Corsair.

[Corsair]

Harry,

I have to contest something said earlier in this thread.
The statement that Ojos Del Salado is an easier climb than Aconcagua.

Facts:
Aconcagua is graded to F everywhere and it's never necessary to rope up.
Ojos Del Salado is graded PD almost everywhere I've looked. The exceptions are an AD in two places and a F/PD in one place. The rock-climbing section in the end is a 5.4-5-5 (US)/II-III(UIAA) and that falls in the AD category.

Would you climb all the way to the top on Ojos without considering using a rope?
I'm sure you do on Aco?

I climbed the peak myself a week back and I definitely think Ojos is the harder peak. On the other hand, I had crap conditions. 24-26m/s, constant whiteouts and a long distance on the attack day (started from 7.3km, raven's way. C alt. 5400m).
That made me go for the Dorse direct route, just in order to minimize the distance and stay out of the wind as possible. This route contains 450m vert.m glacier climbing at 40-50 degrees and is on the Argentinian side of the peak, so it's not really compairable with the standard route in Chile, but the summit's last 30 meters are still there with semi-technical rock.

C.

[7summits]

Hey Corsair,

well done, sounds like fun 
Looking back I would not go there without at least a short rope. Did not need it then but many will. Also when it is really icey, it will be useful.

So you are right, depends on how you look at it: the last 30 meters are tougher than on Aconcagua, but overall Ojos is easier due to the easy approach: you can drive to 5200m easily (fun!) and if you are confident and the road is clear, even all the way to 5800m. The track is just as easy as on Acon, maybe even easier as there is no Canaleta (though there is a part just before the crater where I let out quite a few bad words while sliding back 1 step for every two steps up).

I think AD is grossly overrated, would say F with one section of 5.4 rock.
Do you have any pics?

Cheers,
H
 

[Corsair]

H,

If I had arrived from the Chilean side, sitting in a jeep up to 5500-5800m on a sunny day, I may have said Ojos is much easier than Aco.

I walked solo from Incahuasi (6621m, which I summited two days earlier), with provisions for 12-14 days. The weather was really crap, no good maps, illegal crossings into Chile, 4 passes over 5600m etc.


I think AD is grossly overrated, would say F with one section of 5.4 rock.


So do I in a way. I talked to some Argentinian climbers about this and they argued that the technical part was at the worst possible place, i.e. just underneath the summit on an almost 7000m high peak. True, but still...
According to "my rating system", it can never ever be a F though. F is a non-tech ascent, a complete walk up and if there is any talks about using ropes it is at least a PD.

Do you have any pics?


I should have. Shot a roll and a half on summit day. Lousy weather, so the result will probably be bad. Do you wanna have a look at them later?

C.