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Author Topic: Oceania highest mountain  (Read 32807 times)

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Re: Oceania highest mountain
« Reply #20 on: Dec 27 2010, 20:56 »

Hi 617,

thanks for the input. Probably this debate will never end as there are many possible views andreasons.
However, I think that all 3 arguments mentioned above are invalid when you know that:
- Messner had identified the 7 summits a long time before and had climbed 6 of the 7 before Dick bass even started climbing them. Dick Bass had the means to go to Vinson, but just because he finished his list first, does noet mean he was the first to come up with the concept (actually others even started before).
- Messner never ran a guiding business.

If you climb Kozie, at least do the Hannel's Spur, the only route that actually involves ascent (1800m up). Still a hike, but much more fun than an iron boardwalk...

Keep on climbing!
Cheers, Harry
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Re: Oceania highest mountain
« Reply #21 on: Dec 28 2010, 01:57 »

Hi Harry,

Some valid points (and i agree the debate will never come to an end, aside from the "agree to disagree" status which accepts different definitions based on (consistently) applying different criteria).

True Messner never ran a guiding business (although I think he has done some minimal commercial guiding), but many others have. This is no jab at you as you're freely allowing this debate on your forum and aren't demanding inflated prices.

I'm not really aware of who was then the first to think of the 7 summits as a concept. Would require some research. I guess all i can indicate is Bass is the first to have claimed to finish them (and write a book) and only that triggered the publically controversial debate. Would be interesting to know whether Messner challenged Bass on the definition:
- before or after Messner climbed K?
- before or after Bass completed his 7?

I freely admit i did the lazy Thredbo route and consider it more of a nice excercise (although i was pleased with my 1:15 time, i'm not in that bad a shape after all). Back in Sydney now and regret not having also done another route (e.g. Charlotte's Pass). I'm not a purist though...  if a lift goes up to below the summit, i'll take it. Just like i'll also fly to australia rather than swim or use a canoo ;D On Kili i did the Lemosho / Western Breach route though - thought it would be a nicer way to see more of the mountain, avoid teh crowds and get a better acclimatization. Will also take an alternative route up Aconcagua... either Polish Traverse orGuanacos if that's open again I'm intrigued by the glacier route as well but am a bit concerned about whether it represents too  much unnecessary risk. In any case, a few more months to decide... first the battle to get time off from work :-\
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Kilimanjaro (2005), Elbrus (2006), Kosciuszko (2010), next is Aconcagua

m.c. reinhardt

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Re: Oceania highest mountain
« Reply #22 on: Feb 26 2017, 12:31 »

For the world….my 7 Summits list:

Elbrus, summitted June 14, 2003 (booked through Harry!)
Kilimanjaro, summitted December 28, 2003 (used Zara!)
Aconcagua, summitted February, 21, 2005 (private)
Everest, summitted June 2, 2005  (summitted with Harry!)
Wilhelm, summitted Sept 20, 2006 (one of the 3 versions)
Vinson Massif, summitted December 17, 2006 (booked with Alex and Harry)

As far as Denali, Robert Williams, Ben Barranko, and I thought we reached the summit in June 2004, in a white-out snowstorm at 2 in the morning and we were in great condition.  We told the park rangers exactly where we were with a picture of a bench mark, and they said they will count us as summitting.

But recent events have led me to believe we did NOT reach the actual summit.  We now think we were on a false summit just 10 minutes of the actual summit.  So I plan to go back to climb Denali in 2008 and also 2009.  My passion is the 7 Summits!!

Mountain John Christiana

Thanks Harry and MC for the comments!

Just like one of my climbing partners on that Denali trip is going back in 2008 (Bob Williams aka Frodo), my plan is to go back in 2008 AND 2009.  I am now convinced I did not summit.  The reason I will go back in 08 AND 09 is I have several friends that have asked me to be a part of their team.  I do not think I want to mix these friends on the same Denali team.  I do want to make sure that I summit in 08 though, and if I have to go solo, I will.  MC, maybe you can join the team in 09?  My philosophy is that the team should discuss ahead of time all options if someone gets sick or tired.  Of course, safety is first, but I believe safety and success can both be achieved.

AS far as what constitutes a summit, I think that you need to believe yourself that you were on the summit (not what a guide, the park rangers, other climbers tell you), so this is why I am now going back for sure.

AS far as the Oceania thing, I truly believe Wilhelm is the highest, so I am okay with that.  I will certainly climb Kosciusko as well as that was my plan all along, as I have had separate plans to go with good friends (Tanya) and past girlfriends (Breanna), but it just got delayed.

But Harry, as mentioned, I believe ALL 3 versions have good merit and will stand the test of time.

I am really happy that the 7 summits passion is alive and well.  If you think about it, it was just over 20 years ago that Dick Bass started the dream for all of us.  So in the whole realm of things, the 7 summits is just in the beginning stage.

All the best, Mountain John Christiana

Still want to climb Denali.
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Mountain John

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Re: Oceania highest mountain
« Reply #23 on: Feb 26 2017, 16:37 »

 ??? ::) Wow why is someone re posting two posts from 2007 which is half the story. Because in 2008 I got additional information and I forwarded the email to the above poster and Harry advising them that I have new information and now agree that our team DID indeed summit Denali in June 2004. Now I am obligated to reply here to supply the full story. Jeez.

What happened is the VFTT team summited Denali in June 2004 in a total whiteout. We were all in great shape but hey we are at the summit. What happened is because of the whiteout I later asked someone to describe the summit and they gave me a doubt. Then I asked a guy on the shuttle bus that lived in Colorado and he said we WERE on the summit and he said he was just there on the summit so he knows. The picture of the summit at the airport also did match what I observed and I called Bob Williams, my summit mate, and said that I am now convinced that we were on the summit. In December of 2008 though, the new information was that I was being targeted for horrendous abuse and I decided that it was not the summit because I could not confirm.

But then Bob Williams led a private expedition up Denali in June 2008 (as I said in above post). I emailed Bob, my summit mate, who I met through Views From The Top (VFTT) after he returned and I asked if he could confirm. Bob (Robert aka Frodo) confirmed that YES we were on the summit in June 2004. He said no doubt. I personally FORWARDED that email to MC Reinhardt and Harry and said that based on this new information I believe we WERE indeed on the summit. So the above re-posts are only half the story and I need to explain the whole story. wow that I need to. I suppose if I personally go back someday I could confirm 100% but I have like 4 confirmations and only 1 no which was a total stranger. Plus the park ranger said we were on the summit.

There was an exact situation for me on the highest mountain in Arizona, Humphrey's Peak, when I was climbing the highest mountains in the 50 states. My friend Rob Krenik, his brothers, and my friend Ray Garcia all climbed the peak in a total whiteout. We thought we summited but I knew it wasn't so I went off on my own to the summit. It was safe for them as they had 5 people. I climbed in deep snow on and on and got to the real summit. But it was total whiteout, same as Denali. So the next day I called the ranger and asked them to describe and they could not confirm. That bothered me just the same as Denali. So I called Rob and said for sure he did not summit and I am not sure about me, so one month later, we drove back and we climbed the mountain in clear weather. Guess what. I was at the summit the first time. There was a half post like railroad wood that was very obvious, but the rangers could not confirm that the first
time. So I did go back and I did confirm and I now have climbed that mountain two times. So Denali could be two times if I go back there too.

So there is the FULL story. I consider I summited until I can prove otherwise. I have one stranger (not with us) that said no and I have several climbers that said yes including my summit mate Bob Williams that confirmed YES in 2008 that we were on the summit and he was with me the first time in 2004. This confirmation was after the above posts. There you go. Jeez. I love the truth and the truth is the whole story.

Go 7 summit climbers! Live your passion. Live the truth. Lots of good stuff coming up. Don't let anyone tell you that you can't live your passion. Don't let anyone tell you that you can't fulfill your goals. Goals are easy. One step at a time. And go Harry, basically my summit mate on Mt. Everest as we summited only about an hour apart on June 2, 2005.
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Mountain John

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Re: Oceania highest mountain
« Reply #24 on: Feb 26 2017, 16:46 »

paragraph 2, line 4 correction: December of 2007
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Mountain John

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Re: Oceania highest mountain
« Reply #25 on: Feb 27 2017, 06:59 »

By the way, everyone, so you all understand better, the person that re posted the 2007 posts which was only half the truth is my older sister  :o ;) ::) That might explain. Again, I sent her, MC Reinhardt, and Harry in summer of 2008 (AFTER above posts) my confirmation that we summited AND I FORWARDED the email that I received from Bob Williams (Frodo) with Views From the Top - who is still active on that site and very well respected.
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