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Author Topic: What is the hardest summit to climb?  (Read 50794 times)

Ron

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Re: What is the hardest summit to climb?
« Reply #20 on: Oct 24 2004, 18:56 »

You cant learn stamina, hardship, illness, feeling bad/sick, fitness, mental stability, Hardening i all condition AND so on in books.

PERIOD
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Re: What is the hardest summit to climb?
« Reply #21 on: Oct 24 2004, 19:04 »

You cant learn stamina, hardship, illness, feeling bad/sick, fitness, mental stability, Hardening i all condition AND so on in books.

PERIOD
Correct. Any climbing book or website will tell you this  ;D
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Buddha

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Re: What is the hardest summit to climb?
« Reply #22 on: Oct 25 2004, 02:58 »

You 2 agree more than you think..
I think Trunl's argument is that you can learn from books the fact that you need first hand experience in mountains to become experienced.
Which sounds like a contradictio in Terminis, but is actually valid.  8)

So Harry, would you agree with trunl's statement and say that he is a professional mountaineer based on reading books only? Would I then be a Pro Deep-Sea diver if I read boks about that?

Of course it's good to read books.. I read books, I watch movies, I get out in the wilderness and mountains, all to gain the experience and know-how to survive and climb mountains. There are things though that you can't learn from books, like Ron says. How about a simple thing like your stove breaks down? I've never read a book that tells me how to fix it, but still I can with my multi-tool (Thanks Leatherman) and the reason I can is because I've read the manual (not a book) and also used common sense in fixing it again. Does a book tell you how to pitch a tent when it's a white-out and windy? I think not! Learning by reading is fair enough, I never said no to that. What I've said is that you can never get the experience to call yourself pro or even experienced mountaineer from reading books only. That is what trunl says. That he is a pro mountaineer! Learning by doing is far better in getting the knowledge and experience to call yourself en experienced or even pro mountaineer...

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Re: What is the hardest summit to climb?
« Reply #23 on: Oct 25 2004, 03:14 »

Hey Buddha,

read my answer above carefully, as you seem to be missing the point I made. I do not say that Trunl is experienced, but neither does he.
I mentioned that a book is a good place to learn for the first time that only on mountains you can get experience 8)

Or a website for that matter... what if people do not read books or sites and just head off for the hills not knowing that they need to build up to mountains like Everest slowly and securely?

Of course I completely agree with having to go really out to learn real things, but this (knowing that you have to go out and not just read) is something that can be found in books...
 O0
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Ron

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Re: What is the hardest summit to climb?
« Reply #24 on: Oct 25 2004, 04:04 »

All well and fine but it would be helpful if you are on a forum and have EVERYTHING to learn (and if you only read books you still have too) take notice on what people are saying  and dont be  liek "mr know it all" but stay low.
Also do not spread your "wisdom" without being able to fall back on ANY experiance andstay until you do and know what you talk about.
And that goes for everyone
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Buddha

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Re: What is the hardest summit to climb?
« Reply #25 on: Oct 25 2004, 04:08 »

Actually I must admit that I've misread and misinterpritted the message by trunl where he says in answer to my question about being experienced or not from book reading only and final statement that he should stay away...

right.... buddha, i will because i HAVE read so much about it and am informed that it should NOT be someones first, or even second, 8000er.

First I thought that he meant he would be an experienced mountaineer but would stay away from Annapurna, and I still think he meant that. But that goes for me...

If I had left out the last "stay away trunl" I'm quite sure I would have received a different answer since he stated in other topics around this forum that he is not a beginner but an experienced mountaineer...
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smrtnupp

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Re: What is the hardest summit to climb?
« Reply #26 on: Oct 25 2004, 05:23 »

If you were to become a Doctor, Lawyer, Accountant - the very first thing you do is pick up a book.... for a period of time you would learn from that book.... when you are done reading the books, the foundation of what you have learned from those books start to form, then you start your practical experience, hands on. You in fact are not considered a Doctor, Lawyer or Accountant until you have had the hands on exerience combined with theory.

Would it not be safe to say, a new climber should read everything they can "before" attemtping a "small" climb.

I see it as both, reading and actively climbing before one could call themself experienced. I will never climb and I continue to read, I may be well informed on climbing, but that does not make me experienced.
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7summits

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Re: What is the hardest summit to climb?
« Reply #27 on: Oct 25 2004, 14:26 »

If you were to become a Doctor, Lawyer, Accountant - the very first thing you do is pick up a book.... for a period of time you would learn from that book.... when you are done reading the books, the foundation of what you have learned from those books start to form, then you start your practical experience, hands on. You in fact are not considered a Doctor, Lawyer or Accountant until you have had the hands on exerience combined with theory.

Would it not be safe to say, a new climber should read everything they can "before" attemtping a "small" climb.

I see it as both, reading and actively climbing before one could call themself experienced. I will never climb and I continue to read, I may be well informed on climbing, but that does not make me experienced.

Totally agree. First thing you need to learn is that you only gain real experience in the the mountains, but that it is dangerous to just head out without any previous knowledge.
Go on a course, hire a guide and read before you start the course.

What if someone new to climbing just said:
"Ah, I read on some website that you can only get experience in the mountains, so I am not going to bother reading 'Freedom of the hills' but just go up Mt Rainier tomorrow. I guess that my nike's and cotton sweater will be warm enough to make it up and down, it's just another hill isn't it?."

You can learn from books/sites outdoor shops what a crampon is, clothing layers, AMS and more. You can read about epics and discuss with otherw why it (almost) went wrong. But as Buddha said you can never learn how to fix a stove at -20 from your armchair and it would help if someone who has done it before is with you at the time that happens.
Every mountain can be dangerous.

You can get experience of how to get killed in the mountains only once.

Be prepared, know your basics (can be done by reading books/sites, visiting outdoor shops  ;), talking to other climbers) and when you go out, bring a more experienced partner, or go on a course which is essentially the same thing.

But make sure who you talk to. Someone who wants to climb Rainier/Denali/Whitney/Everest and has read all about it is not the same as someone who has actually been there and can share his/her firsthand experience.

Now Trunl, where are those Whitney pics? Just show them and we can all close this case  8)

 O0
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Buddha

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Re: What is the hardest summit to climb?
« Reply #28 on: Oct 26 2004, 03:46 »

Now, I never stated that you can't learn a grat deal from books. I just said that you can't go from beginner to experienced just by reading books.

Now on to the actual topic... We were talking about dangerous mountains. Although Mt. Elbrus is a "beginners" mountain without any technical climbing it is dangerous. Here are some statistics for the last season on Elbrus:

Some words about the 2004 season:
- There are about 15% visitors more than in 2003. The tendency is same as for the last 4-5 years.
- Technical, physical skills and motivation of climbers (in common) go lower from year to year. Elbrus becomes a popular destination. However it is still dangerous mountain. 48 climbers died in the area this season.

I'm looking forward to tackle this mountain next season with hopefully a lot of guys from these forums. With Harry's guidance (I hope) we will all summit the mountain and come back down safely.
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smrtnupp

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Re: What is the hardest summit to climb?
« Reply #29 on: Oct 26 2004, 07:07 »

Ouch!!!! Getting alittle rough in here  :(

But I have to agree with a few of the comments Budha has made. I would tend to believe most of what I read, within reason of course, as I am naive in this new world. Not that I am personally in any danger of bad advice, but those who do come to read and learn with the intent of climbing could be at risk of being misguided.

Trunl,
How wonderful that there are climbers on here that have been there, done that. If you are in fact 15 years old, and you have this great desire of "becoming" an experienced climber, sit back and take in whatever knowledge you can from these experienced climbers, their advice could save your life one day!!! Be a sponge and suck it up. Not that long ago, none of us would have had the luxury of learning "online" like we do today. I will be your greatest fan by watching your accomplishments and progress!!!! I also love to read your posts.
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Buddha

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Re: What is the hardest summit to climb?
« Reply #30 on: Oct 26 2004, 08:35 »

Ouch!!!! Getting alittle rough in here  :(

Well, it wasn't really my intention at first but at some point I need to let it out! I agree with you that I think it's wonderful that trunl wants to climb the seven summits. You are also completely right when you say he should be like a sponge and suck in all the info here. I'm here for that same reason, to suck in information and maybe (hopefully) get to know a few people in the process...

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Re:What is the hardest summit to climb?
« Reply #31 on: Sep 27 2006, 19:53 »

most talk about how the mental challenges are the hardest, yet most people cant handle them. the other day, when i went to the dentist, and found i had a cavity, i told him no gas or antiseptic just to see if i could handle the pain. it was unbelievable, and i will probably never do it again, but anyway like i was saying the mental is the hardest, so i say vinson is the most challenging

This is hilarious. Focus on the primary mental aspect of mountaineering: discipline.
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Kilimanjaro (2005), Elbrus (2006), Kosciuszko (2010), next is Aconcagua
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