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[Daisy]

True, I'd rather save money in other ways....I would be in favour of getting a guide unless someone else on the team is experienced enough to facilitate the expedition?

[MikeW]

I agree! Last June we were in whiteout conditions and the presence of a guide who knew the mountain really well was definitely a good thing when we were coming down. The guide took a different route than coming up because of the visibility and the terrain.

Even in whiteout conditions you don't absolutely need a guide, with a good GPS it will do, but it would have been more difficult and dangerous. Plus like MoT said, be careful of the people in your group. In my group last June with Pilgrim, two people took the lite package and didn't even bring an ice axe. One of them was panicking and the other had to be roped up. They weren't the only one without an ice axe! Many people used crampons for the first time, and for a guy he lost his crampons 4 times during the ascent.

MikeW

[MoT]

All you have to do is think - "Could i get down unguided (and alive) from 5642m in the following situation:"




And that's not the WORST situtation imaginable 

[Buddha]

Since Harry has guided a couple of groups on Elbrus I think he is qualified enough to take us along without paying extra for a guide from Pilgrim Tours.

[MoT]

Ah...  :_[ Didn't know Harry was guiding. From your post it looked like you were hoping to go 'unguided'

You should do ok in that case 

Just out of interest, have you set your dates yet?

[Chong Lay Chin]

      Harry , we are depending on your expertise to guide us up the mountain . I am working on my endurance and cardiovascular at the moment . I will get proper training on
technical ice montaineering during the early January 2005 . He ( Raymond Lee )  will be guiding me on technical mountaineering . He is an Outward bound instructor in Singapore . He will be in a better position to teach me . I will only purchase the climbing gears when it's near the departure dates . Air tickets will also be purchase when a comfirm dates are set . I am working 12-hrs night shift to get more cash for the trips . I expect that this trip will be costly  , so I am working very hard till june / july 2005 . Happy Thanksgiving !



 

[JaclynS84]

hey, was wondering if i could be added to the mailing list for the elbrus trip.  I've climbed in Colorado and was thinking about doing Kilimanjaro this June, but I could do Elbrus if the price is right.

~J

[Buddha]

Hot with a body... well you are not lying in your AIM...

Sure you can be added. I don't know if the trip will be done at the moment since the last mail I sent out nobody except Harry answered to..

I will try one more mail then I will go with an offer to join Scandinavian Ascents... but hopefully I will be able to go to Elbrus with all you fine people instead! 

[JaclynS84]

cool, thanks.  i have a few people that wanna do kili, but they have about zero climbing experience, so they might not be the best people to add to the elbrus trip.  i have at least climbed 14ers in the snow, they've never even climbed, lol.

[Chapter_11]

How happy i was to find this post!!!!

My dad and I just got back from a successful summit of Aconcagua this December.  We did Kili last Sept.  Next up for us was Elbrus and we planned on using Pilgrim.  I actually found one of our teammates for Aconcagua on this board  - It would be great to do the same for Elbrus....Add me to the list....I may shoot a few of you an email.

[Mari]

I don't know if the trip will be done at the moment since the last mail I sent out nobody except Harry answered to..

I will try one more mail then I will go with an offer to join Scandinavian Ascents... but hopefully I will be able to go to Elbrus with all you fine people instead! 

I'm still ready to go to Elbrus with you!! I'll send you an email today so check your messages...

[Buddha]

If anyone except me and Mari is still interested in joining us on an Elbrus trip in late July, early August you need to let us know before 30 March. This is in order to have time to talk as a group on what we can expect and to actually know which people are coming or not. As it has been so far too many people have expressed their interest but decided not to tag along once we've started talking about the trip itself.

The cost for the trip is 775 Euros, that does not however include roundtrip airfare from your preferred airport to Moscow International Airport.

Below is the intinerary for the trip:

Day 1. Arrive in Moscow. Transfer from International airport to hotel. Overnight stay in hotel. Depending on what time we arrive in Moscow this can be a day with sight-seeing.
Day 2. Transfer to domestic lines airport by taxi. Two-hour flight to Mineralnye Vody (Caucasus). Car drive (4 hrs.) to a mountain lodge in the Baksan valley near the foothills of Mt. Elbrus. Overnight stay in the lodge with dinner at the evening and breakfast in the morning.
Day 3. After breakfast we start from the mountain lodge and ride cable lifts. There are two parts of cable lift and one chairlift then. Lifts take us to the Garabashi lift station, the place where The Barrels huts are situated (3900 m). From the Barrels the snow and ice actually begin. We have to be back to Garabashi station at 3-4 pm to catch the lifts. Lunch in an Azau cafe. Dinner and overnight at the mountain lodge.
Day 4. After breakfast we start from the mountain lodge and ride cable lifts. There are two parts of cable lift and one chairlift then. Lifts take us to the Garabashi lift station, the place where The Barrels huts are situated (3900 m). From the Barrels the snow and ice actually begin. It takes us about 1 hour to get to the former Priut-11 hut site (4200 m). Now, the Diesel hut is situated there. If you feel ok that moment you can go further up to the beginning of Pastukhov rocks (4500 m). We stay over night either in tents a few hundred metres above the Barrels or spend a night in the Barrels (cost 7 Euros per person and night).
Day 5. Acclimatization hike and rest day. Just smaller hikes, not higher then 4,500 m.
Day 6. Move to a higher camp, approximately 4,500-4,800 metres up. Set up camp and make smaller acclimatization hikes.
Day 7. I would like to have this either as summit day or a rest day before we attempt the summit, since we moved so much the previous day.
Day 8. Summit day. Leave higher camp about 4 am for the climb of Elbrus’s west summit, 5,642 m. Descend to base camp.
Day 9. Reserve day for climbing Elbrus (in case of bad weather) or descent to the Baksan valley if we climb the summit on day 8. Dinner in the mountain lodge and we spend the night there as well.
Day 10. Descend to the Baksan Valley. Dinner in the mountain lodge and we spend the night there as well. If we’ve descended on day 8 we go for a hike either to the mineral springs or Mt. Cheget summit.
Day 11. Breakfast at the mountain lodge before going by car to Mineralnye Vody. Fly back to Moscow. Transfer from domestic airport to hotel. Overnight stay in a hotel.
Day 12. Check out from hotel and transfer to International Airport. Fly home!

Of course this intinerary is subject to change depending on the number of participants but should hold.

Anyone interested can send me an e-mail!

Cheers,

Andreas

[Daisy]

Hi Buddha

What does the cost 775€ include?

Thanks
D

[MikeW]

Hey Buddha!

Let me give some advice about your itinerary. On day 3, we climbed Mt Cheget to the 3500m summit and we had great views of Elbrus across the valley. I think that 3500m for a first day of acclimatization is more than enough, remember you were at sea level 24 hours earlier.

By the way, the Barrels are at 3700m and Diesel hut is at 4100m. On day 4, we took the trams and the chairlift to the Barrels and hiked to Diesel hut at 4100m and got back down to the valley (climb high, sleep low). Again, 4100m is more than enough for a second day at altitude even if you feel great, remember we took 4 days to get to base camp at 4200m on Aconcagua.

On day 5, we took our stuff to sleep at the Barrels and made an acclimatization hike at the top of the Pashtukov rocks at 4800m. That was a tough hike for most people in the group because of the rapid altitude gain.

On day 6 was rest day with a short acclimatization hike to Diesel hut at 4100m to have lunch to get a better acclimatization. Day 7 was summit day with a departure from the Barrels by foot at 2:00am and by snowcat at 3:15am. It took one fellow climber from Ireland 14 hours round trip from the Barrels.

I don't know where you are going to put your high camp, because over the Pashtukov rocks at 4500m to the saddle over 5100m, it's all inclined. And even at the Pashtukov rocks, I don't remember a good place to camp.

If you have a spare day in the valley after summiting Elbrus, you should go to the valley next to Terskol close to the observatory at the base of Elbrus. There is a waterfall after a 4 hours hike that's simply gorgeous.

Have a great trip and a great climb, the Caucasus are beautiful and it's a good place to gain experience for higher summits. Have fun!

MikeW

[Buddha]

Hi Buddha

What does the cost 775€ include?

Thanks
D

Hi Daisy,

The cost includes the following stuff:
1. Visa support
2. OVIR registration
3. Border zone registration
4. National park fee (US$ 20) - the new registration fee.
5. Meeting, transfer from International airport to hotel
6. Hotel "Izmailovo Alfa" accommodation, twin/single room, without breakfast, 2 nights
7. Transfer from Hotel to Domestic Airport
8. Domestic flight from Moscow to MinVody Airport
9. Meeting at MinVody airport. Transfer "MinVody airport - Terskol" and backwards
10. Accomodation in a mountain lodge, 2 meals a day, shared 2-3 bed rooms. 3 or 4 nights depending on when we make it to the summit of Elbrus.
11. Elbrus region plan/map.
12. Baggage room at the mountain lodge for pieces that you don't want to carry up on the mountain.
13. A local guide for Mt. Elbrus climb (1 night, which means he comes up in the evening, starts climb with us at 2-4 am and returns back to the Valley same day.
14. A local guide for hiking around (1 day, from 8 am to 8 pm) in the case that we make it to the summit on the first attempt. This hike is a good time to go to Mt. Cheget.
15. English and German speaking representative support.
16. Transfer from Domestic Airport in Moscow to Hotel
17. Transfer from Hotel to International Airport

18. Depending on the number of people that sign up there might also be a T-Shirt with a print on from our expedition.

Since I don't run a business like Harry does, I am not interested in "getting" any cash out of this expedition or trip. When we've calculated the costs we've come to the conclusion that the total cost will be somewhere around 775 Euros. Of course this is also subject to change since we might not spend 4 nights in the mountain lodge and thus not hire a local guide for the hike to Mt. Cheget or Mineral Springs. So, any and all cash that don't go to paying stuff will be refunded equally among all participants. Hopefully each and every one of you will trust me enough for that, who knows?

[Buddha]

Hey Buddha!

Let me give some advice about your itinerary. On day 3, we climbed Mt Cheget to the 3500m summit and we had great views of Elbrus across the valley. I think that 3500m for a first day of acclimatization is more than enough, remember you were at sea level 24 hours earlier.

By the way, the Barrels are at 3700m and Diesel hut is at 4100m. On day 4, we took the trams and the chairlift to the Barrels and hiked to Diesel hut at 4100m and got back down to the valley (climb high, sleep low). Again, 4100m is more than enough for a second day at altitude even if you feel great, remember we took 4 days to get to base camp at 4200m on Aconcagua.

On day 5, we took our stuff to sleep at the Barrels and made an acclimatization hike at the top of the Pashtukov rocks at 4800m. That was a tough hike for most people in the group because of the rapid altitude gain.

On day 6 was rest day with a short acclimatization hike to Diesel hut at 4100m to have lunch to get a better acclimatization. Day 7 was summit day with a departure from the Barrels by foot at 2:00am and by snowcat at 3:15am. It took one fellow climber from Ireland 14 hours round trip from the Barrels.

I don't know where you are going to put your high camp, because over the Pashtukov rocks at 4500m to the saddle over 5100m, it's all inclined. And even at the Pashtukov rocks, I don't remember a good place to camp.

If you have a spare day in the valley after summiting Elbrus, you should go to the valley next to Terskol close to the observatory at the base of Elbrus. There is a waterfall after a 4 hours hike that's simply gorgeous.

Have a great trip and a great climb, the Caucasus are beautiful and it's a good place to gain experience for higher summits. Have fun!

MikeW
[/quote

Hey Mike,

The intinerary isn't carved in stone, so if the members of the group feel like we should change something we will do that in a democratic way. I am all for climbing Mt. Cheget. I've seen a lot of gorgeous pictures of Elbrus that are taken from Cheget.

According to Pilgrim Tours the Barrels are located at 3.900 meters and the Diesel Hut at 4.200 meters. Now, this may be wrong but they spend a lot of time there so...
The Mt. Elbrus page on Summitpost says that the Barrels are at 3.800 meters and the Diesel Hut at 4.200 meters.

Now, I'm NOT trying to be bossy here cause I haven't been there yet so I can't really tell. But Summitpost's mountain page has received over 10.161 hits that are all experienced mountaineers, and then me of course.

Anyway, let's just say that it is high up.

Now, concerning camp sites for tents high up, I've talked to a lot of people who have given me suggestions on where to put up the tents. Most of them suggests the following:
Just above the old Priut 11 hut there is plenty of space for camping. This is the normal basecamp. Most people stay on the left side of the glaciar, camping between the rocks. Some go to the rocks on the far left, seeking for a more quiet place to stay.
Above that the next point is Elbrus saddle. There is a hut ruins before the saddle. You can stay near the ruins. Also there is a kind of  ice cave nearby. It is heated by volcano steam, so it is possible to stay there even without a tent. Now this might be too high up for us to put a camp...

[MoT]

I reckon camping in the saddle is a bit much unless you're training for a higher peak immeiately after climbing Elbrus.

Regarding the natural snow cave - it's not that big but it IS worth looking for it when you get up to the hut just in case of bad weather or anything like that hitting you  on the way down. It's reportedly around 5 degrees celcius in it all the time. We used it to warm ourselves up in bad weather - not by going into it, but by clearing away the snow built up around it - the exercise warmed us rather than anything else! 

[ICAN]

Curious, is the trip still going ahead?

[Mari]

Yes it is. So far it looks like there are just two of us going, Buddha and me. If someone else is interested, you should let us know as soon as possible.

Buddha? Is there something you'd like to add?

[Buddha]

No, nothing really interesting right now. I am still waiting for an answer from Daisy if she is coming or not. We will book the trip in early April so you still have about 3-4 weeks to decide if you want to come with Mari and me to Russia... No date is set in stone yet but we've been talking about late July, early August for departure..